The Gut-Histamine Connection with Leah Vong | Ep. 156

I'm Bridget Walton, a functional nutritionist helping ambitious women ages 25-45 naturally restore hormone balance, fix irregular periods, feel confident in their fertility, and resolve gut health issues without restrictive dieting.

If you struggle with missing periods, PMOS/PCOS symptoms, bloating, or unpredictable cycles, this women's health podcast will teach you how to support your hormones through strategic nutrition and lifestyle changes that actually fit your busy life.

On I'm Hormonal, you'll discover natural solutions for period problems, learn how gut health impacts your hormones, and get practical hormone balance tips from a functional nutrition perspective - no more guessing what your body needs.

Today's episode is an interview with Leah Vong where we talk about genetics and your gut health. This episode is for anyone who wants to learn more about how genetics, histamine, and digestive functional can all influence each other.

Learn more about Leah's work: www.leahvong.com
Free download: How to Identify Your Food Triggers

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Transcript

Welcome and Conversation Roadmap

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hello and welcome to the I'm Hormonal Podcast. I'm your host, Bridget Walton. I am a functional nutritionist. And what we do here at I'm Hormonal is we support women to overcome their hormone and digestive imbalances so that you can feel better, so that your period problems are a thing of the past. So that if conception is the journey that you're headed on, you're feeling so confident and so ready for that pregnancy. And one of the ways we do that is through providing you with some juicy educational conversation conversations. Conversations. And so today I'm bringing you a conversation that I had with Leah Vong. If you listened to the last episode, this is a part two. I talked with Leah last time about genetics and hormone health. And today we're going to be focusing on genetics and more of the gut health conversation. We talked about the DAO enzymes or anyway, enzymes that relate to histamines. And so I say this to say if you're somebody who has challenges with allergies or maybe not known allergies, but that same kind of response, that classic allergy responses, you don't know what it's about. Then this could be a really helpful conversation for you. If you're new here, but then let me just remind you that your gut health and your hormone health is so closely intertwined. These two things can't be separated. One is going to impact the other. And vice versa. So while we go a layer deeper, right? This isn't exactly an intro episode. We're going to be getting more into the nitty-gritty. I think this will be a really helpful conversation for you if you are trying to figure out what's going on with your hormonal health and get things back on track. So we will just go ahead and jump right in. Again, this is my conversation with Leah Bong and enjoy. I'll see you

What Histamine Does in Your Body

SPEAKER_01 2:01

on the other side. Welcome back, Leah. Thanks for hanging out with me. Last time we talked more so about the hormone and genetic component of health and wellness. Today we're going to focus back in on gut health. We're going to talk more about Dow enzymes and histamines and that good stuff. So as we get ready to jump into that conversation, walk us through how through the lens of gut health, like what even are histamines? How does that impact gut health? What might that look like for somebody on a day-to-day to kind of cue them in to really pay attention to this conversation?

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Yeah, sure. So, you know, histamine is something that it's a response that happens in the body. We're not trying to completely get rid of all histamine. It's a normal process, but it can be, this process can be overstimulated. So when someone has leaky gut, for example, histamine tends to increase. When someone has hormone imbalance, histamine tends to increase. Same thing with neurotransmitters, you know, they all kind of like feed, can feed this cycle of increased histamine in the body. And I think, you know, for your listeners, I think one of the really important things to touch on, which you were asking, is what is it? How does this look for people? So someone who's having kind of a dysfunctional histamine response is gonna experience things, maybe not all of these, but some of these things, anxiety, headaches or migraines, worse PMS symptoms. A lot of those symptoms will show up, will show up way worse for someone who's got a lot of histamine in their body and a lot of histamine production happening. Also, itching and hives and kind of those, you know, a lot of people think about histamine with like seasonal allergies, for example, or if someone walks around sneezing a lot, things like that, runny nose, stuff like that. So those symptoms can certainly come up when we're talking about histamine, more specific to food as well, or to the gut, you know. And I think the other things that I think of are like flushing, like you're really good. And I know for somebody who's maybe going through perimenopause or menopause might be harder to tease that out, but just that flushing that can happen and really like itching and hives and and things like that. So it can be pretty uncomfortable. And I I'm not sure, did I already say anxiety? But I think it's really important for people to understand that the gut brain connection is so strong. And histamine is one of those things that can really increase anxiety for us. So if that's something that that you're struggling with, I think that's that that's really important to kind of tune in that that could be a player, a player in exacerbating that.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yeah. Okay, beautiful rundown.

Food Sources That Raise Histamine

SPEAKER_01 4:44

I want to add to a little bit of context about where where do histamines even kind of come from, because in part, right, or that could be related to allergies, but it's also related to certain foods. Certain foods are naturally higher in histamines. That's okay, it's just a fact. Um, or for somebody who maybe meal preps or otherwise eats a lot of leftovers, like leftovers are going to be kind of accumulating, if that's the right term, those histamines. So those are some ways that people will just, you know, ingest histamines or or something that elicits a histamine response.

DAO Enzyme Genetics Explained

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Then on the other side of the coin, right, is the Dow enzyme that we started talking about a little bit last episode. But let's look at that enzyme and how, like, what is the genetic kind of component to it? What's the, what is the kind of risk of things going awry with the Dow enzyme?

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Yeah, so um DAO is diamine oxidase and it is an enzyme that breaks down histamine in the body. So it comes back to how do we detoxify histamine and kind of keep it in check and keep it in balance. When someone has different SNPs or variations on that enzyme, it might not be working as quickly as it needs to, and therefore we're left with more histamine in the body. And so, kind of just to bring that back into a little bit more full picture with what you were saying about foods, if someone has that gene and it seems to be expressing because they are, you know, maybe maybe struggling with histamine-like symptoms, and then they're eating a lot of high histamine foods on top of that, or you know, their body is is struggling with environmental allergies or whatever it is, that can all increase the histamine load. And so as someone is kind of looking at their genetics and seeing, oh, maybe I have a mutation there, but then like keeping in mind all these other things play into how great that, how full your histamine bucket will be, is what I like to say. You know, we each have a bucket of how much we can tolerate and what a healthy level of histamine our body can handle. And when you're seeing symptoms like that, your bucket's overflowing. And so we want to just get it back down. It doesn't mean like don't eat meat or citrus or, you know, these different things that can that can increase histamine in the body, but it means we you we need to be mindful of like what's happening, what's your threshold right now? And as people heal, that threshold increases. So knowing that it's not a permanent thing and it's not an all or nothing thing, but just kind of keeping that in check. So that's a little bit about how like genetics come together with our food and lifestyle and things that we can fairly easily, or I should say simply, it's not always easy, but simply do to bring that, to support that enzyme and to bring it more into check. And then do you want me to get into a little bit more about supporting the DAO enzyme? Because there are minerals and things that support that enzyme.

Minerals That Support DAO

SPEAKER_00 7:40

And so I think we mentioned in the last episode, retinol A, magnesium, and copper are specific minerals that really support the DAO enzyme. So for someone, for everybody, it's important to have a good amount of those minerals. But for someone who has a DAO and uh a DAO SNP or variation and um that enzyme's not working as well, there are some things we can add in in that way to support the enzyme as well.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

Yeah. Is there for somebody who is eating a like quote unquote good diet, right? They have a good variety of veggies of different plants. They're eating mostly like whole foods. Are they probably maybe hopefully getting the right amount of copper magnesium and vitamin A that would be helpful? Or is this, yeah, talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

It's a great question. Um, one of the things that I do know is that a lot of our soil is depleted, especially in copper, and copper is super important for supporting this enzyme and a lot of the enzymes in our body. So I think with that being said, like for example, if you eat dairy and you're you're drinking grass-fed milk, even the grass, the grass that the cows eat has to be grown in um in copper-rich soil. And if it's not, then you probably aren't getting copper through that source. And so I think that this is where the functional testing becomes so important because in the world that we're living in, our soil isn't what it used to be. Glyphosate, which is that, you know, really nasty chemical that they spray on so much of our food, and it really affects the ecosystem in the soil as well. Glyphosate depletes copper from the soil also. And so I think that if we don't do the testing, we don't know that. I would say keep eating those foods. You're doing so many good things for your body by eating that. But we unfortunately, I don't really believe that we can just trust that our food is giving us all of those essential vitamins and minerals that we need. So I think that we can get some, you know, and then like for magnesium, greens are a great source. Leafy greens are a great source of magnesium. But if we overcook them and they're just like, you know, cooked to a point where they're starting to brown or or whatever, then also we're losing a lot of the nutrients that way. So I think that um continue to eat a whole food diet. But then if you do the testing, you can kind of see what your balance of minerals and nutrients actually looks like.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Yeah, that's a good point and reminder for a lot of people who maybe aren't super familiar with the fact that sometimes if you overcook food or even if you're just, I don't know, you're steaming broccoli. Broccoli is good for you. You should eat broccoli, but the more you cook it, the more some of those vitamins, like, you know, they don't literally dissolve, but they're no longer viable. Right. So that's interesting. I have one question for you, which this might be hyper niche and we can zoom past it, but I'm curious, have you ever seen anything or like a study or any reference to women who have copper IUDs? And like, is that those people in Invernally have a little leg up for DAO enzymes?

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Yeah, you know, I don't know much about the um the research behind it, but I've definitely know that it's talked about in the health world as far as a source of copper and not necessarily, you know, I don't know. We we absorb through those mucus linings in our body, we absorb a a significant amount. I don't know if it actually brings up copper or not in the body, you know. I think that it is something to be mindful of because copper is a I won't go too far down this rabbit hole, but copper is a pretty um interesting mineral to study because there's so many things in the body that deplete it, but also it needs to be, and there's so many functions that it helps, but it also needs to be bound to what's called celluloplasmin, which is the protein that kind of allows us to utilize copper. When that becomes unbound, we can have copper in the body that's not actually doing what it needs to do. So things like cod liver oil and supporting our vitamin A and our retinol levels can really help with that. That's one of the main reasons, a huge reason that we need good levels of vitamin A is because it supports copper. So I think that like when we're thinking about how we're kind of taking copper into the body, whether it's, you know, some people are like drinking out of copper, copper mugs and things like that. And I've heard those aren't quite as bioavailable as food and really good supplementation. But yeah, with the IUD, I'd be interested to learn more.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Yeah. Well, we'll keep our fingers crossed, or maybe somebody's listening, put in a good word with somebody that you know. Yeah. To look into that.

Gut Health Drives Hormone Balance

SPEAKER_01 12:27

So, okay, so let's refocus back to gut health, right? And let me even take one more step back. Maybe for a listener who hasn't hung out here a lot lately, doesn't know how important your gut health is for your hormone health, right? We talked about detoxifying in the last episode and how eliminating waste, like having regular bowel movements, is so important for your hormone levels. But what else is there when we're thinking about gut health and genetics and hormones that that that's relevant here to the conversation in addition to the AO?

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Yeah, I really think of hormones and the gut just being like completely interlinked. You know, I think that's that starting with the gut and helping to balance the gut can be so powerful because our gut does regulate so much of our hormones. Inflammation in the gut impacts, you know, what's what's happening with our hormones, how not only how we're detoxifying them, but what it's looking like to be able to produce and create the right amount of hormones. And so I think that we can't really separate those two things. The gut to me is so foundational when I think about hormones. And it sounds like in the work you're doing too, you're definitely working with people on balancing their gut and kind of getting that right. Cause I think if we do it the other way around, we can definitely see some benefit. But it it there's so it's so much more work, you know, than you're constantly working against this foundational piece that that has so much to do with how our hormones are functioning. The other thing to think about is there's a lot of hormone signaling that's that's impacted by the gut and these communication centers between like the gut and the liver. Like when I think about hormones, I really think about the gut and the liver being the two major uh organs and systems in the body that support hormone health and throw in if there's something else that you're in tune with that like that is so important, you know. So when those two things aren't working well, like I think it's very often the case that our hormones are off or our body compensates for a while, but eventually those things are gonna become impacted in a way. Hormones will become, you know, either we'll we'll have an excess or we're gonna have depleted hormones or both, and you know, just can really, really um dysregulate everything. The other thing I want to add in is just kind of the connection between like, well, insulin and cortisol. And I know, you know, we've kind of talked more about estrogen and those kind of things, but the connection with stress and high cortisol levels in the body and how that impacts our gut and how in turn that impacts our blood sugar, which makes a difference in how we're using glucose and how we're processing carbs and things like that. Like I think it's good for people to understand just how interlinked this stuff is. And I want to say just an encouraging note is that the beautiful thing about that is that when we start working on these systems, so much can shift. And it's not like you gotta work on your estrogen and then you've got to work on your progesterone, and then you've got to work on this piece of your gut, and then this, this with your liver. Like as you support the body, it supports the body as a whole. And so I find that, you know, people come in and they're like, gosh, I have like 12 different issues, and where do we start? And it's like we're gonna start in the same place no matter what. Like, yeah, let's just kind of figure out like what support, what supports you need and start adding things in, start removing the stressors. And I think people are really relieved when they realize that that it's not, they don't really need to address 12 different issues.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Yeah, totally can echo that. And, you know, similar experience to maybe different context of like, well, I'm here because, you know, I have constant bloating and I, you know, have really irregular, unpredictable periods. So why are we looking at gut health and why am I, why are you trying to why are we talking about pooping every day? Like that's not what we're here for, you know. But it is all it's all, it's all connected. You

How Common Are SNPs

SPEAKER_01 16:30

know, one thing I'm curious about is like on average or not on average, but statistically, like how many people have these genetic mutations or SNPs or anything else? Do we all probably have, you know, we've all probably got a couple, but it's just not a big deal. Or are there some people who, you know, 20% of people have a problem with DAO? I obviously made that up. Yeah. So hit us with a couple like stats where people are like, oh shit.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Yeah, do am I what's happening? I I do, I do think everybody has some variations, you know. Like I've never ran a genetic test where it's like, this is just perfect. You are perfectly balanced on every enzyme. Like there are going to be some things, but like you just referenced to, it depends how they're showing up. And it um if you're not expressing and you're eating well and you're taking care of your body and like things are in balance and those genes aren't actually expressing, or they're not actually what we call active in the body, then they may not be causing any problems for you, even on under the surface sort of level. And so a little bit we can think about it as like as we use the epigenetics, which is our influence on those genes, we can help to bring those back into balance. For something to be called a SNP, I can tell you that one percent, it has to be over 1% of the population has that SNP. And so it won't be labeled that without, where like when things are considered mutations, they're more rare. So, like when I think of genetic mutations, I'm thinking of like potentially more of a deletion instead of just a, you know, an enzyme that's slow or fast, but something missing. And so we can think of things that people are familiar with, like Down syndrome, Eilers Daniels syndrome. Like there's these different things where it's like that's missing and it causes this in the body. Some people do use those words interchangeably, but these snips are much more common than that. And like you said, you may have, you may have several and or you know, we all have a handful. We all have a handful. Like it's not just one or two usually, but you could have those and none of none of them are really showing up as an issue in your life, or you're doing things to support your body that that they're not really causing problems. Or you could have, you know, one or two major ones that are really like presenting, really active and and presenting. And then, you know, those are the ones that we want to take a look at. Because there's a lot of genetics that I don't look at as well. I look at the ones that we can kind of influence and do things about, you know, I want to look at enzymes that I can support and we can take a peek at the other ones, but then people get into like, I have all the autism genes. Does that mean I have autism? No, it does not mean you have autism. You can have at every you can have two mutations or two variations on every single gene and not have autism. Or you may have two mutations or two variations. I'm sorry, I'm confusing those words now, but two variations on the DAO enzyme and not have histamine problems because of what you're doing in your life, you know, because of how you're supporting your body in other ways. So we all have them. There, there everybody's got some. And there's definitely people who seem to have hit the jackpot more than others. And I think, you know, then it's just using it to really explain and validate our experiences. Like, for example, for me, I have some of the more difficult neurotransmitter genetics. And so it took me a long time. I was like, I always feel like I have to work so hard to stay like regulated in my nervous system or to get in that state of being rested and being able to digest well and relax really easily. I'm a very I really like to get things done. And so, you know, my work has been to slow down and not do as much. And so I think when I learned my genetics, I was like, wow, that makes a lot of sense. You know, it makes a lot of sense because I have genetics that don't process my serotonin and dopamine out as easily. And both of those things can lead to anxiety and, you know, kind of being in a heightened nervous system state. So it's very interesting to see what each person, you know, it's unique because it's your DNA. And it's very interesting to see the combination and then to pull those those genes together too. So, like how I was talking about we're correlating between functional labs and symptoms and genetics, we're also correlating between different genes because there's different things that can kind of be feeding into the same system or dysfunction in the body.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Yeah. I like what you're saying about right, knowing things about your genetics, right? That just helps you be more informed as to how you need to like what you need to do moving forward. Like what maybe mostly uh, well, I don't want to say minor, but anyway, like it's just good information. It's not something to be like afraid of. It's just gonna help you make better decisions.

Epigenetics and Small Daily Changes

SPEAKER_01 21:31

And maybe we can end kind of on this note of hope, right? Um, in terms of, you know, again, it's not something that you are like destined with, your lifestyle, your diet, like decisions that you make. That's what's important. That's what you can control. And there's really a lot that you can do. Add on to that anything that maybe I missed or that you'd just love to re-emphasize.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Yeah, I mean, I think that that that is so important for people to hear, you know, that it's just it's really not about destiny and all of the testing that that we're using is really just to give us more information about how to better support your body. And no matter what the situation is, there are always things that we can do. And a lot of them are really simple. You know, a lot of times it starts with supplementation or just, you know, maybe cutting our alcohol intake down a little bit, or you know, there's so many, there's so many things we can do. And I like to tell people too when we think about, because I think people can get very overwhelmed with like, whoa, like I'm here and I need to be there. And that seems like a lot of shifting and change in between here and there. And I like to really like focus on that 1% change, like 1% change every day, those little steps that you're taking. If you look at that over time, it can really lead to massive changes. And so sometimes with genetics, and we're seeing that a gene is expressing and kind of causing those challenges in your body, sometimes it's just adding in like a supplement or two. And things that support one gene are going to like indirectly support your body as a whole. Every little bit that you do can really make a big difference.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Perfect. Well, on that note, let's wrap it up for

Free Guide and How to Connect

SPEAKER_01 23:16

the day. Thanks for hanging out with us. Go ahead and plug anything, let gals know how they can connect with you.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Okay, great. Thanks so much for having me today, too. It's been really nice to chat and kind of brainstorm this stuff. And hopefully it's been really valuable for your listeners. The easiest place to find me is Leavong.com and it's L-E-A-H, Viazin Victor O-N-G. And everything that I do pretty much stems from that website. So that's kind of the best place. And then I'm also gonna leave a um a free PDF for people. It's a how to identify your food triggers guide. And people are welcome to download that and kind of use that information if they're struggling with food sensitivities or gut health challenges. It just kind of gives you a little bit more um awareness about where a place to begin.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Thank you so much, Leah, for joining us for these two episodes. Thank you, listener, for hanging out with us for these two episodes as well. I hope that you found something uh like tangible that you can take away from this conversation. If you have any questions, if there are any topics you want to hear on the podcast, then send me a DM on Instagram at I'm underscore hormonal. And as always, I'll remind you that the information we shared with you today is for educational purposes only, not meant to be used as a replacement for medical advice or diagnosis. So that is it. Thank you again. I'm Bridget Walton. This is I'm hormonal, and we'll see you on the next one.